snathan
02-24 02:41 PM
There is no number that is 'enough'. We need as many people to come in as possible. It is not some kind of 'minimum' required to make it a success. The more the merrier. If we get 50000 people to attend the event, we will have HUGE exposure and may even be able to get a fix to ALL the issues within the next 2 months.
The maximum numbers will come form EB3 becasue they are the most retrogressed or maybe they have seen their category shafted in so many ways that theyhave lost hope.
Is this not what you are doing? Because you think IV is not working for all categories, while facts state otherwise, you are putting down the initiatives taken to fix the problems.
Everytime some law gets made or a rule interpreted EB3 gets shafted. Al the time its is EB3which loses number and EB3 doe snot even get its yearly miserly quota completely. So any initiative which does not specifically address most badly retrogressed category directly is not going to get support
Rest
If we talk about reality than i can see that IV cannot do anything for EB3. Not for the want of trying but because reality (as stated by you) is that EB3 is the least preferenced category. That does make me wonder about the qualification of a fresh MS for EB2 when compared to skill set of peopl in EB3 but that is a different fight. As you have so clearly stated there is no hope for EB3.
What is going to happen is that CIR will be introduced in another 5 years and that big group of people will be placed in EB3 (of coruse because EB3 is the least preferenced category) and all teh EB3 people wil be advised to port to EB2.
If you lost hope - you want others to work for you, fix and revive your hope ? If you are getting affected dont you need to fight to fix it? Why you expect others to fix for you ?
The maximum numbers will come form EB3 becasue they are the most retrogressed or maybe they have seen their category shafted in so many ways that theyhave lost hope.
Is this not what you are doing? Because you think IV is not working for all categories, while facts state otherwise, you are putting down the initiatives taken to fix the problems.
Everytime some law gets made or a rule interpreted EB3 gets shafted. Al the time its is EB3which loses number and EB3 doe snot even get its yearly miserly quota completely. So any initiative which does not specifically address most badly retrogressed category directly is not going to get support
Rest
If we talk about reality than i can see that IV cannot do anything for EB3. Not for the want of trying but because reality (as stated by you) is that EB3 is the least preferenced category. That does make me wonder about the qualification of a fresh MS for EB2 when compared to skill set of peopl in EB3 but that is a different fight. As you have so clearly stated there is no hope for EB3.
What is going to happen is that CIR will be introduced in another 5 years and that big group of people will be placed in EB3 (of coruse because EB3 is the least preferenced category) and all teh EB3 people wil be advised to port to EB2.
If you lost hope - you want others to work for you, fix and revive your hope ? If you are getting affected dont you need to fight to fix it? Why you expect others to fix for you ?
wallpaper Sebastian Vettel Photos
pappu
01-07 08:34 AM
I don't seem to have access to the donor forums anymore. Admins., can you please help? I have a recurring contribution set up.
Thanks,
It seems your subscription was canceled/expired at the end of last month. Thus the access to the donor forum was not there. After your new subscription yesterday and subsequent verification your access has been restored.
Thanks,
It seems your subscription was canceled/expired at the end of last month. Thus the access to the donor forum was not there. After your new subscription yesterday and subsequent verification your access has been restored.
sravani
05-10 01:33 PM
Hi Sravani,
Thanks for your suggestion. I am also planning to contact my university, would you mind sharing the letter(or template) which you got from Univeristy. Does it in a general format or did they mentioned any thing specifically applicable to you.
I don't mind sharing the letter, but let me get the positive news from USCIS. It's better to follow that format, once we know it's acceptable by USCIS. I will post the University letter, Evaluation and Attorney letter once my case is approved, so pray for me guys. :p
Regarding the letter format, the first 2 paragraphs are general admission guidelines, but the 3rd paragraph says I admitted directly to the second year of the 4 year Engineering degree and completed all the academic requirements for the Engineering degree.
Thanks for your suggestion. I am also planning to contact my university, would you mind sharing the letter(or template) which you got from Univeristy. Does it in a general format or did they mentioned any thing specifically applicable to you.
I don't mind sharing the letter, but let me get the positive news from USCIS. It's better to follow that format, once we know it's acceptable by USCIS. I will post the University letter, Evaluation and Attorney letter once my case is approved, so pray for me guys. :p
Regarding the letter format, the first 2 paragraphs are general admission guidelines, but the 3rd paragraph says I admitted directly to the second year of the 4 year Engineering degree and completed all the academic requirements for the Engineering degree.
2011 Sebastian Vettel
anai
09-10 04:13 PM
We should also compile information on:
1. Who has grown the grayest/baldest while waiting
2. Who has saved the least in these years of waiting
and
3. Who has spent the most time agonizing at the cost of other sources of happiness
Seems like a great day for misery, given the Oct visa bulletin.
1. Who has grown the grayest/baldest while waiting
2. Who has saved the least in these years of waiting
and
3. Who has spent the most time agonizing at the cost of other sources of happiness
Seems like a great day for misery, given the Oct visa bulletin.
more...
bigboy007
10-29 06:23 PM
along with posting here I need all of you to email me gry129@gmail.com in the following format IF YOU HAVE NOT already done so.
IV ID:
Name:
Address:
Phone Number:
Receipt Number:
Receipt Date:
Approval Date:
CPO Date:
IV ID:
Name:
Address:
Phone Number:
Receipt Number:
Receipt Date:
Approval Date:
CPO Date:
katrina
02-08 11:42 AM
Guys:
This is a great forum. If any of remember ISN(www.isn.org)...I am from that batch and I was an active volunteer and Board member of that group. I even went to Capitol to knock on Congressmen's doors to approve the 245(i)....245(i) got approved..but my GC is still pending. Got laid off twice...But God has been faithful and I survived the storms. Now I am on my 8th year of H1...boy it is a long time.
I applied my GC for the 3rd time and then got laid off on Sept 30, 2005...but my RIR LC from MI ..which had gone to Dallas BEC and PD of Aug 7, 2003 got approved on Oct 6, 2005.....Unfortunately I could not use it.
My last straw....I applied for my H1 transfer and got approved through priority processing within 2 weeks. I then applied for my GC the 4th time and got into the PERM LC bandwagon. PERM Application sent on Dec 21, 2005 and guess what .....I got my PERM approval on Dec 30, 2005.......I got Labor Approval twice in 1 year.
God is still with me and the miracle happened in 9 days. I could not believe it...I have been waiting for this moment for almost 8 years....I am on my way to EB2 - I-140......
I hope this forum will succeed in its venture.
All the best...see u around on the forum.
Cheers
FinalGC
Congratulation and thank you for sharing it with us
This is a great forum. If any of remember ISN(www.isn.org)...I am from that batch and I was an active volunteer and Board member of that group. I even went to Capitol to knock on Congressmen's doors to approve the 245(i)....245(i) got approved..but my GC is still pending. Got laid off twice...But God has been faithful and I survived the storms. Now I am on my 8th year of H1...boy it is a long time.
I applied my GC for the 3rd time and then got laid off on Sept 30, 2005...but my RIR LC from MI ..which had gone to Dallas BEC and PD of Aug 7, 2003 got approved on Oct 6, 2005.....Unfortunately I could not use it.
My last straw....I applied for my H1 transfer and got approved through priority processing within 2 weeks. I then applied for my GC the 4th time and got into the PERM LC bandwagon. PERM Application sent on Dec 21, 2005 and guess what .....I got my PERM approval on Dec 30, 2005.......I got Labor Approval twice in 1 year.
God is still with me and the miracle happened in 9 days. I could not believe it...I have been waiting for this moment for almost 8 years....I am on my way to EB2 - I-140......
I hope this forum will succeed in its venture.
All the best...see u around on the forum.
Cheers
FinalGC
Congratulation and thank you for sharing it with us
more...
eagerr2i
08-13 07:27 PM
If we have some one in thie forum from Infosys and they know N Nilakani then you may get his cooridnates. Tom Freidam is a very good friemd of Nilakani.
2010 Red Bull#39;s Sebastian Vettel
rameshvaid
07-24 10:52 AM
Hi,
I was able to access last week. But now my access is revoked. can some one look into it?
Same with me too..
RV
I was able to access last week. But now my access is revoked. can some one look into it?
Same with me too..
RV
more...
indianabacklog
04-24 10:46 AM
this is from his website: Note that there is no mention of "ilegal" here.
DREAM Act
The Development, Relief and Education of Alien Minors Act, or DREAM Act, is a narrowly-tailored, bipartisan bill that would provide immigration relief to a select group of students who grew up in the United States, who have good moral character, and who are pursuing a college education or have enlisted in the military. In other words: if you came to the United States before the age of 16, if you have lived in this country for at least five years, if you graduate from high school, and then if you will complete either two years of college or two years of service in the military, we will give you an opportunity for legal status in America. The DREAM Act would also return to states the authority to determine whether to grant in-state tuition to state residents regardless of immigration status.
Yes, cleverly written isn't it? Whoever prepared this intro the act thought carefully about every word so as not to be inflammatory, hoping people would not realize who the 'select group of students' actually are.
DREAM Act
The Development, Relief and Education of Alien Minors Act, or DREAM Act, is a narrowly-tailored, bipartisan bill that would provide immigration relief to a select group of students who grew up in the United States, who have good moral character, and who are pursuing a college education or have enlisted in the military. In other words: if you came to the United States before the age of 16, if you have lived in this country for at least five years, if you graduate from high school, and then if you will complete either two years of college or two years of service in the military, we will give you an opportunity for legal status in America. The DREAM Act would also return to states the authority to determine whether to grant in-state tuition to state residents regardless of immigration status.
Yes, cleverly written isn't it? Whoever prepared this intro the act thought carefully about every word so as not to be inflammatory, hoping people would not realize who the 'select group of students' actually are.
hair Sebastian Vettel Photos
NisarS
07-31 09:00 AM
Myself alongwith my wife and son returned yesterday (30-JUL-2010) from Mumbai - Frankfurt - Chicago (Flight Air India AI127) with AP, expired Visa, and no Germany ATV.
more...
dixie
09-09 02:25 PM
Well said alterego. We need to remember that this whole H1-B and EB system is industry-driven ... and deliberately filled with loopholes for them to exploit. Nobody will listen to our "Add X delete Y" wishes... we just dont carry that kind of weightage. The only way out is to ride on whichever bill benefits our agenda at the moment, regardless of whoever else benefits or gets harmed by it .. whether it is illegal aliens,restrictionists or industry.
Some members are making comments that are idealistic and demonstrate a clear lack of awareness of how the political system in the USA has evolved to be. The fact is corporate lobbyists and money DO affect the legislative agenda.........otherwise Kay street would not need to be there. The last I saw the firms there were thriving.The only people that can do something about this are ordinary americans but at this time they do not seem to be particularly interested or able to do something about it. Given that our strategy has to be based on the ground rules.
Here are some facts.
1) Healthcare and the IT majors have a massive political lobbying machinery. IV is not even a crum compared to their power in this regard. No offence meant to IV core members who are doing a herculean job given everything but I am sure many of them realise what I am saying.
2) These industries think big ie at a overall job marketplace level and see the need for NEW workers in their workforces for whatever reasons. The operative word is NEW. We are not NEW. H1b is NEW. As far as they are concerned we are here and will eventually get our papers.
3) Lawmakers can, do and probably will listen to these people eventually if not now then in the lame duck session. As such I will make the bold prediction that more H1b numbers WILL be allowed before Oct 2007, barring an unforeseen downturn in the economy.
4) Now given all this our best shot at getting to our goals should be to use the machinery that exists to meet our objectives. So while I do not give 2 cahoots about what is done about the H1b cap. I have yet to see legislation passed that provides more visa numbers without addressing the H1b issue. To believe we will see this for the first time is truly being naive and idealistic.
Just think about it, even the 50K visas for nurses/PTs had a provision for 20K H1bs for US maters degree holders. Those of you trying to uncouple these issues are smoking something. It will be all or nothing.
5) The overall economy and job market determines more than anyone here realises on these policy decisions. Where were all these organisations, opposition and congressmen in 2000 when AC21 was debated. Fact is noone cared. The economy was humming, jobs were plentiful and salaries were rising. As such a fact out of our control but which greatly influences our fate is the overall economy and the monthly job report, and unemployment rate.
Please try to keep these points in mind when posting about X or Y or Z should exclude H1b visas because it will worsen our situation. That would truly be looking no further than your nose.
Some members are making comments that are idealistic and demonstrate a clear lack of awareness of how the political system in the USA has evolved to be. The fact is corporate lobbyists and money DO affect the legislative agenda.........otherwise Kay street would not need to be there. The last I saw the firms there were thriving.The only people that can do something about this are ordinary americans but at this time they do not seem to be particularly interested or able to do something about it. Given that our strategy has to be based on the ground rules.
Here are some facts.
1) Healthcare and the IT majors have a massive political lobbying machinery. IV is not even a crum compared to their power in this regard. No offence meant to IV core members who are doing a herculean job given everything but I am sure many of them realise what I am saying.
2) These industries think big ie at a overall job marketplace level and see the need for NEW workers in their workforces for whatever reasons. The operative word is NEW. We are not NEW. H1b is NEW. As far as they are concerned we are here and will eventually get our papers.
3) Lawmakers can, do and probably will listen to these people eventually if not now then in the lame duck session. As such I will make the bold prediction that more H1b numbers WILL be allowed before Oct 2007, barring an unforeseen downturn in the economy.
4) Now given all this our best shot at getting to our goals should be to use the machinery that exists to meet our objectives. So while I do not give 2 cahoots about what is done about the H1b cap. I have yet to see legislation passed that provides more visa numbers without addressing the H1b issue. To believe we will see this for the first time is truly being naive and idealistic.
Just think about it, even the 50K visas for nurses/PTs had a provision for 20K H1bs for US maters degree holders. Those of you trying to uncouple these issues are smoking something. It will be all or nothing.
5) The overall economy and job market determines more than anyone here realises on these policy decisions. Where were all these organisations, opposition and congressmen in 2000 when AC21 was debated. Fact is noone cared. The economy was humming, jobs were plentiful and salaries were rising. As such a fact out of our control but which greatly influences our fate is the overall economy and the monthly job report, and unemployment rate.
Please try to keep these points in mind when posting about X or Y or Z should exclude H1b visas because it will worsen our situation. That would truly be looking no further than your nose.
hot sebastian vettel girlfriend.
msyedy
11-28 02:45 PM
Immigration was not a concern in the midterm poll. The GOP Congress would never look into this issue in Lame duck. This will be passed on to the next congress. People believing that this is the only time for the GOP to sign off a bill that they like with all enforcements is slim.
Until President Bush pushes this issue to be definitly pass bill we cannot expect something this year or in the comming years.
Hey I am in this shit too waiting for my GC but look at it from a different angle.
Until then ADIOS AMIGOS
Until President Bush pushes this issue to be definitly pass bill we cannot expect something this year or in the comming years.
Hey I am in this shit too waiting for my GC but look at it from a different angle.
Until then ADIOS AMIGOS
more...
house sebastian vettel girlfriend.
dixie
12-12 06:11 PM
I am not being ideological here - just being cautious of the restrictionists' known record of hyprocrisy. Keep in mind - the restrictionists are idealogues, not rational folks given to reason. Judge them by action, not hypocritical words. Tell me one instance where numbersUSA actually tried to reform the H1-B or EB visa - for them reform is a euphemism for ABOLISH. I have been following matloff's articles for a long time now. Please read all of them, and you will notice that the only immigration he supports is the EB-1 variety of truly exceptional ability researchers. He rejects the need for any H1-Bs at all in fields like software development. Its a fallacy to equate that with Canada's point based system. Once we align with them, they will use us, twist our words and spit us out when it suits them.We will also loose the support of organizations like competeamerica and AILA for good. Expect them to fully ignore us from that point on.
qplearn and nycgal, i totally understand your zeal for some action - I am in the same boat after all. If IV as an organization collectively determines that it is in our best interests to selectively side with the enemy, I am all for it. Let the core team decide what is best for us. Let us not take a hasty decision.
Agree. We should work quickly to find a bill to attach it to in early Jan/ Feb. Perhaps we should approach Cornyn, and make him aware of the new proposal from Matloff. He may have seen it already.
Sounds like a plan :)
qplearn and nycgal, i totally understand your zeal for some action - I am in the same boat after all. If IV as an organization collectively determines that it is in our best interests to selectively side with the enemy, I am all for it. Let the core team decide what is best for us. Let us not take a hasty decision.
Agree. We should work quickly to find a bill to attach it to in early Jan/ Feb. Perhaps we should approach Cornyn, and make him aware of the new proposal from Matloff. He may have seen it already.
Sounds like a plan :)
tattoo Red Bull#39;s Sebastian Vettel,
gcformeornot
04-29 10:02 AM
Not necessarily, out of these 600k, maybe 100k are advanced degree holders, and out of these 100k, maybe only 30k can find an eligible 'American Employer'. I am sure when publishing the details they will exclude all Indian consulting firms. But yeah even 30k sounds a lot. I believe they will change that to PhD from 'advanced degree'.That will use a few thousands extra visa, which is entirely reasonable.
I agree. The Key point is Find a Job in their STEM area. Not like today where a MS in Civil Engg ends up doing job in IT consulting.....
an offer of employment from a United States employer in a field related to their degree.
I agree. The Key point is Find a Job in their STEM area. Not like today where a MS in Civil Engg ends up doing job in IT consulting.....
an offer of employment from a United States employer in a field related to their degree.
more...
pictures celebrates with girlfriend
purgan
07-31 02:23 PM
Called couple more 'pubs today. In rep gohmert's office was able to convey the message to the chief of staff. I emphasized this is bipartisan, non controversial legislation, cosponsored by Sensenbrenner.
I see the other side has also mobilized to call against the bill (folks who apparently say they are for "Legal" immigration)..
I see the other side has also mobilized to call against the bill (folks who apparently say they are for "Legal" immigration)..
dresses driver Sebastian Vettel of
shukla77
11-25 02:22 PM
Folks,
Let us not waste this opportunity.I will be there for both rally and lobby day.
Good Luck
Let us not waste this opportunity.I will be there for both rally and lobby day.
Good Luck
more...
makeup girlfriend of Lewis
fromnaija
03-30 11:56 AM
As a parent of a kid who nearly aged out but got saved by the July 2007 fiasco, I really understand the pains of legal immigrant parents whose children face this issue. Even now, I don't know what my sons would do if my I-485 is denied as two of them are now over 21!
I would support this issue and send faxes and call my Senators and Representatives.
Congress should not be rewarding children of illegal immigrants while neglecting to act on same issues that children of legal immigrants face.
I would support this issue and send faxes and call my Senators and Representatives.
Congress should not be rewarding children of illegal immigrants while neglecting to act on same issues that children of legal immigrants face.
girlfriend sebastian vettel wallpapers
stirfries
11-16 09:00 PM
congrats cool_desi_gc...Knowing your situation from reading this thread, at least, you have one less thing to worry about when you visit your parents for Emergency !!! Good Luck on your visit !!! Hope everything goes well !!!
Thanks,
Thanks,
hairstyles Sebastian Vettel finally won
catch22
03-20 09:01 AM
The reason why so many EB2/EB3 based GCs were approved in years 2003/2004/2005 was because USCIS simply did not get a handle on the 7% country limit and messed up enforcing the limits. If someone thinks that all those excess immigrant visas were issued only in the last quarter when visas from other countries went unused (AC21), they are totally wrong. It was the main reason why USCIS made the visas 'Unavailable' because they simply did not know the extent of the damage.
Also, everyone seems to be forgetting that the reason the country quotas exist is for controlling the ethnic demography of this country. Like it or not - This country does not like immigrant population to be skewed too much to one particular ethnic group, be it Chinese or Indians or some other group in future. And this consideration would definitely be playing on a Senator's mind. Besides it has not escaped the attention of the Senators/Congressmen that the AC21 provision resulted in giving more visas to Chinese/Indians than any other country.
At this moment, its really hard to predict by how much the visa backlog will ease. One has to keep in mind that the current bills really go a long way to ease backlog and to increase per country quotas. Not counting the dependendents in the employment category is a key consideration and will definitely improve the situation. Not to mention increase in visa numbers from 140,000 to 290,000. No one really knows what would be the impact of STEM related GCs.
And if someone is arguing that by keeping the Paragraph (5) provisions, stipulated by AC21, one is going to solve retrogression - I don't buy it. Because as of today that provision is active and it hasn't helped solving the backlog. And the Senators are certainly not looking for ideas to open the floodgate and give GC to everyone who has applied the day before. Lest not forget their constituent considerations and megaphones of people like NumbersUSA.
At this moment, our energies should be more focussed on getting whatever EB related provisions in the bills passed through the senate without them getting dropped. I propose that IV support Bill Frist's bill rather than the committee bill since the illegal immigration amnesty would only add to the woes of the legal immigrants. Lets not forget the 245(i) nightmare.
Also, everyone seems to be forgetting that the reason the country quotas exist is for controlling the ethnic demography of this country. Like it or not - This country does not like immigrant population to be skewed too much to one particular ethnic group, be it Chinese or Indians or some other group in future. And this consideration would definitely be playing on a Senator's mind. Besides it has not escaped the attention of the Senators/Congressmen that the AC21 provision resulted in giving more visas to Chinese/Indians than any other country.
At this moment, its really hard to predict by how much the visa backlog will ease. One has to keep in mind that the current bills really go a long way to ease backlog and to increase per country quotas. Not counting the dependendents in the employment category is a key consideration and will definitely improve the situation. Not to mention increase in visa numbers from 140,000 to 290,000. No one really knows what would be the impact of STEM related GCs.
And if someone is arguing that by keeping the Paragraph (5) provisions, stipulated by AC21, one is going to solve retrogression - I don't buy it. Because as of today that provision is active and it hasn't helped solving the backlog. And the Senators are certainly not looking for ideas to open the floodgate and give GC to everyone who has applied the day before. Lest not forget their constituent considerations and megaphones of people like NumbersUSA.
At this moment, our energies should be more focussed on getting whatever EB related provisions in the bills passed through the senate without them getting dropped. I propose that IV support Bill Frist's bill rather than the committee bill since the illegal immigration amnesty would only add to the woes of the legal immigrants. Lets not forget the 245(i) nightmare.
GCAmigo
05-23 07:41 PM
"Moreover, H-1B visa holders would no longer be permitted to have "immigrant intent."
read it here..
http://pubweb.fdbl.com/news1.nsf/9abe5d703b986cff86256e310080943a/c3f957ba3072977d852572e30053e6a0?OpenDocument
read it here..
http://pubweb.fdbl.com/news1.nsf/9abe5d703b986cff86256e310080943a/c3f957ba3072977d852572e30053e6a0?OpenDocument
cvt123
05-23 06:23 PM
[GCCard_Dream]Before you accuse me of coming up with an arbitrary date, I suggest you do some homework yourself and go read the draft. I have posted the content of the bill where it explicitely specifies the cut off date (date of the introduction of the bill). If you don't want to do any reading and just pass comments then go ahead and do that but that won't change what's in the bill.
Here is the your quote from the bill.
2) PENDING AND APPROVED PETITIONS AND APPLICATIONS.�Petitions
22 for an employment-based visa filed for classification under
23 section 203(b)(1), (2), or (3) of the Immigration and Nationality
24 Act (as such provisions existed prior to the enactment of this
25 section) that were filed prior to the date of the introduction of
26 the [Insert title of Act] and were pending or approved at the time of
27 the effective date of this section, shall be treated as if such
28 provision remained effective and an approved petition may serve
29 as the basis for issuance of an immigrant visa. Aliens with
30 applications for a labor certification pursuant to section
31 212(a)(5)(A) of the Immigration and Nationality Act shall
32 preserve the immigrant visa priority date accorded by the date
33 of filing of such labor certification application.
where does it say introduction of "BILL" ?? You are just reading between the lines and assuming the worst..(But if it helps the fund drive then it's great..)To me it just says that, the date when the law is going to be enacted or the first day the law comes into play. Historically, it never happened and it never will be. I am only trying to be positive here.
cvt..
Here is the your quote from the bill.
2) PENDING AND APPROVED PETITIONS AND APPLICATIONS.�Petitions
22 for an employment-based visa filed for classification under
23 section 203(b)(1), (2), or (3) of the Immigration and Nationality
24 Act (as such provisions existed prior to the enactment of this
25 section) that were filed prior to the date of the introduction of
26 the [Insert title of Act] and were pending or approved at the time of
27 the effective date of this section, shall be treated as if such
28 provision remained effective and an approved petition may serve
29 as the basis for issuance of an immigrant visa. Aliens with
30 applications for a labor certification pursuant to section
31 212(a)(5)(A) of the Immigration and Nationality Act shall
32 preserve the immigrant visa priority date accorded by the date
33 of filing of such labor certification application.
where does it say introduction of "BILL" ?? You are just reading between the lines and assuming the worst..(But if it helps the fund drive then it's great..)To me it just says that, the date when the law is going to be enacted or the first day the law comes into play. Historically, it never happened and it never will be. I am only trying to be positive here.
cvt..
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